| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Damocles
Moderator
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 4513
Location: Metro Detroit
|
 Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: The SW also instructs |
 |
|
In our neck of the woods, when opening Lodge, the SW states that one of the duties of the WM is "...to give proper instruction."
Yet, during degree work, it is the capacity of the SW to provide instruction on not only approaching the altar, but how to wear the apron itself.
Same in your neck of the woods? Why is the SW providing such instruction? Is this a theatrical opportunity for more circumambulation, or maybe a way to present the Cnd/Bro to the rest of the Lodge? Is it to give the WM a breather?
Are there esoteric thoughts to this?
_________________
Damocles, WM
Berkley Lodge #536
A characteristic of the normal child is that he doesn't act that way very often. -Unknown |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Gregg Hall
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 2904
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: Re: The SW also instructs |
|
|
| Damocles wrote: | In our neck of the woods, when opening Lodge, the SW states that one of the duties of the WM is "...to give proper instruction."
Yet, during degree work, it is the capacity of the SW to provide instruction on not only approaching the altar, but how to wear the apron itself.
Same in your neck of the woods? Why is the SW providing such instruction? Is this a theatrical opportunity for more circumambulation, or maybe a way to present the Cnd/Bro to the rest of the Lodge? Is it to give the WM a breather?
Are there esoteric thoughts to this? |
Our wording is "give the nessecary instruction" In both cases you listed above, the SW is doing so by the order of the WM. So by his order the candidate is receiving the instructions is he not? If the order was not given the candidate would not receive the instruction.
_________________
EGO iustus volo futurus vir meus canis reputo EGO sum
Morgan Hill Lodge #463 PM
King Howard Chapter #10 RAM
San Jose Council #20 R&SM IPM
Commander San Jose Commandry #10
32° San Jose Valley AASR |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Damocles
Moderator
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 4513
Location: Metro Detroit
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: Re: The SW also instructs |
|
|
| Gregg Hall wrote: | | Our wording is "give the nessecary instruction" In both cases you listed above, the SW is doing so by the order of the WM. So by his order the candidate is receiving the instructions is he not? If the order was not given the candidate would not receive the instruction. |
Meh, I don't buy that logic. The SD isn't specifically ordered to take the Cnd around in circumambulation, but it happens. In fact, many (not all) of floor movements are either initiated by a gavel or the Marshal giving a signal (he usually slaps one end of his baton against a ring on his other hand to make a noise). So, if the order wasn't specifically given, it doesn't mean the Cnd would definitely not receive the instruction.
Either way, the order is not instruction...it's an order.
_________________
Damocles, WM
Berkley Lodge #536
A characteristic of the normal child is that he doesn't act that way very often. -Unknown |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gregg Hall
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 2904
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: Re: The SW also instructs |
|
|
| Damocles wrote: | | Gregg Hall wrote: | | Our wording is "give the nessecary instruction" In both cases you listed above, the SW is doing so by the order of the WM. So by his order the candidate is receiving the instructions is he not? If the order was not given the candidate would not receive the instruction. |
Meh, I don't buy that logic. The SD isn't specifically ordered to take the Cnd around in circumambulation, but it happens. In fact, many (not all) of floor movements are either initiated by a gavel or the Marshal giving a signal (he usually slaps one end of his baton against a ring on his other hand to make a noise). So, if the order wasn't specifically given, it doesn't mean the Cnd would definitely not receive the instruction.
Either way, the order is not instruction...it's an order. |
That is completely different than the way we do it. The only function the Marshal plays in any of our degrees is in the first when he conducts the ususal interogations.
Also, is the circumambulation instruction?
_________________
EGO iustus volo futurus vir meus canis reputo EGO sum
Morgan Hill Lodge #463 PM
King Howard Chapter #10 RAM
San Jose Council #20 R&SM IPM
Commander San Jose Commandry #10
32° San Jose Valley AASR |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Damocles
Moderator
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 4513
Location: Metro Detroit
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: The SW also instructs |
|
|
| Gregg Hall wrote: | That is completely different than the way we do it. The only function the Marshal plays in any of our degrees is in the first when he conducts the ususal interogations.
Also, is the circumambulation instruction? |
Interesting...over here, it's the Secretary that propounds the questions. Our Marshal is in charge of leading the Processional around the Lodge for the degree work.
To answer your question, I would say it has the opportunity to be such, but it is not instruction given by the WM either, eh?
_________________
Damocles, WM
Berkley Lodge #536
A characteristic of the normal child is that he doesn't act that way very often. -Unknown |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hatrock
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 5009
Location: Nashville
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Think of it as compared to the relationship between KS and HKT.
It was KS who "initiated" the idea of the construction of the building and HKT who "supplied the men and materials".
In our Canadian Rite lodges, the WM "commands" the Wardens--the SW "instructs" and "directs" the Deacons, and the JW "sees" and "proves" with the Inner Guard.
There is the odd time when the WM commands the Deacon(s) directly, likely due to an awkward positioning if it weren't the case.
_________________
Hatrock, PM
Ivanhoe Lodge #142, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
+ A&ASR + HRAM + AMD + DKE
Visit Hatrock's Cave
"Luke... let go!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Maineac51
Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Monson, Maine
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
interesting
our opening is "to set the craft at work with proper instructions"
so sending the SD w/the Cand back to the SW for "instruction" or "instruction in how to wear his apron" seems to cover that.
also our marshal leads most processions. we generally do not use audible cues, but some lodges do. a local one has the J or SD tap his rod on the floor once to let the Mar know that all are aligned and ready to proceed. It was brought to them by a Mass. brother, where I understand it is common. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff_Watts
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 23
Location: Southfield, MI
|
| Posted: Mon May 04, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: Re: The SW also instructs |
|
|
| Damocles wrote: | | Why is the SW providing such instruction? Is this a theatrical opportunity for more circumambulation, or maybe a way to present the Cnd/Bro to the rest of the Lodge? |
I think it's just a good opportunity for the Senior Deacon to fufill one of his functions of carrying orders from the WM in the East to the SW in the West!
Is there any other circumstance that the SD would communicate orders to the SW?
-Jeff- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
skiendhu
Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 51
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Canadian rite - To "employ"and instruct the brethren in Freemasonry.
Which implies that he gives the orders and the officers carry them out or alternatively he delegates. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jay
Veteran member
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 451
Location: A little North of here, a little South of there
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| hatrock wrote: | Think of it as compared to the relationship between KS and HKT.
It was KS who "initiated" the idea of the construction of the building and HKT who "supplied the men and materials".
In our Canadian Rite lodges, the WM "commands" the Wardens--the SW "instructs" and "directs" the Deacons, and the JW "sees" and "proves" with the Inner Guard.
There is the odd time when the WM commands the Deacon(s) directly, likely due to an awkward positioning if it weren't the case. |
Excellent explanation.
To use a simile, I see the Master as the CEO with the SW as the COO. The COO is the CEO in training. The CEO plans strategy and the COO sees it executed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Maineac51
Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Monson, Maine
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
from an internet source:
"setting the Craft at work, giving them proper instruction for their labor."
_________________
WM Columbia-Doric Lodge #149 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bloke
Veteran member
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 475
Location: Melbourne, Australia
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| skiendhu wrote: | Canadian rite - To "employ"and instruct the brethren in Freemasonry.
Which implies that he gives the orders and the officers carry them out or alternatively he delegates. |
Same.
But even in the jewels - the Plumb teaches the JW to do something 'in conjunction with Bro Senior Warden and the WM in the well ruling and governing of the lodge " which the level teached the SW something "in conjunction with the WM in the well ruling and governing of the lodge".
The lodge is a team. Here, it if it all about the WM, then the point is missed. King S, HKT and HA all worked together to achieve a goal. Same with the WM, SW & JW - but they could not achieve that goal without the workmen - being not only the installed officers - but everyone in the lodge. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Home
FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
